Defend
Immigrants! Immigrants Should Have All
the Same Rights As Native-Born Citizens!
An
Interview with Wolf Larsen
from the book Capitalism Sucks!
Question:
Why do you call for full rights for immigrants?
Shouldn't people born here in the United States have more rights than
immigrants?
Answer:
We're all human beings. We should all
enjoy the same rights as human beings.
Q.
When you call for equal rights for immigrants are you also speaking of the
right to work?
A.
Yes.
Q.
But aren't immigrants stealing jobs away from Americans?
A.
No, they're not. The United States has
always had immigration. The United
States is a country of immigrants – with the exception of the Indians the rest
of us are all the descendents of immigrants.
The reason that there are less jobs is because the big corporations are
exporting our jobs abroad. So it's not the
immigrants who are robbing jobs. The
problem is that the corporations are robbing American jobs by exporting our
jobs abroad. The other problem is that
capitalism has always had unemployment.
The bosses want unemployment so that there will be people desperate
enough to take your job if you demand higher wages or better working
conditions. In addition, capitalism has
a boom and bust cycle that causes recessions which in turn cause large-scale
unemployment. Therefore, the cause of
unemployment is capitalism. The
immigrants are not causing unemployment.
Hence, American workers should welcome immigrants with open arms.
Q.
Welcome immigrants with open arms? Why?
A.
Let me give you an historical example. When
black workers began migrating north they were for the most part rejected by the
traditional craft unions. I'm not
speaking about the industrial unions, which did not exist yet. Many of the traditional craft unions rejected
black workers. They said that black
workers were stealing jobs from white men.
The result was that quite a few blacks crossed the picket lines of white
workers. If white workers and these
unions had welcomed blacks into their ranks then the labor movement in the
North would have been far more united and stronger. United both the white workers and black
workers would have come out the winners.
But because they were divided against each other both the white workers
and black workers came out the losers. I
say losers because the result of white and black workers being divided against
each other was lower wages for both.
When industrial unions came along and united black and white workers at
the workplace the result was higher wages for both. When you don't welcome your fellow workers
into your ranks and unite with them then the workers will be conquered because
they're divided against each other. If
native-born Americans are divided against immigrant workers and vice-versa then
the only people who will win from this are the bosses and the big
corporations. The result of native-born
workers and immigrant workers being divided against each other is lower
wages. The native-born workers should
fight for the rights of the immigrant workers, and that way we will all make
more money.
Q.
But wouldn't it be better for the American workers if the illegal immigrant
workers were just deported?
A.
No, it wouldn't. As long as there are
employers willing to exploit them there will be plenty of illegal
immigrants. For every illegal immigrant
that's deported there will be another one coming to take his place. There is an endless supply of misery in Third
World capitalist countries. Minimum wage
in these countries are a fraction of what they are in the United States. There's so much poverty in these
countries. People do almost anything to
get out. Trying to stop this huge mass
of desperate people from coming into our country is impossible, particularly
when there's so many employers who are all too happy to exploit them. You have to look at other factors too – like
corruption. Often times the immigration
officials arrive at a workplace to round up these illegal immigrants on payday –
just before these people were to be paid for two weeks of labor. So the best thing for American workers to do
is to fight for full rights for these immigrant workers – so that way immigrate
workers can demand fair wages and decent working conditions. That way the American worker is not being
undermined by a group of desperate people willing to work for any kind of wages
under horrible working conditions. Immigrant
workers are more likely to take a militant stance for higher wages and better
working conditions if they know they're not going to be deported for doing
so. One of the reasons that employers
don't want illegal immigrants to get their papers is because employers want to
keep on exploiting them. The employers
want the illegal immigrants to keep on coming.
Employers want to keep on exploiting the immigrant workers. And that's why many employers don't want the
immigrant workers to get their papers.
Q.
Wouldn't the solution be to improve wages back in these Third World countries? So that these workers don't come here?
A.
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. In the Third World exploitation of the worker
is horrible. In many Third World countries
in Latin America minimum wage is currently about a dollar an hour. In the United States minimum wage is currently
about seven dollars an hour. In many of
these Third World countries in Latin America when you go to the supermarket you
notice that many necessary items like soap, toothpaste, toothbrush, and many
food items are the same as in the United States. So the poverty is brutal. And often times the employers of these
workers have a very wealthy lifestyle. Other
times the employers of these workers are American corporations. So it's the very nature of the capitalist system
that workers of the Third World are so exploited and so poorly paid they will
do anything to get to a first world country, where maybe they will live in
poverty but at least it won't be quite as bad as in their home country. Also, it seems like often when the workers in
Latin America rise up to demand better wages they are mowed down by army and
police bullets. And those bullets are
often made in America, they are supplied by the American government. Our own American government is helping the
governments of Latin America keep their own working people down. Sometimes when these Latin American governments
lose control of the situation and the people are in revolt the American
military comes in and kills a lot of people.
So you see when the working people in these Third World countries fight
for better wages they are often shot down like flies, with bullets supplied by
the American government.
Q.
But hasn't government repression come to an end in Latin America now that most
of Latin America's governments are democratically elected?
A.
Most of the Latin American governments are democratically elected, but minimum
wage in these countries or most of them is still very low and poverty is still
very widespread. Regardless of whether
the government is a dictatorship or democratically elected the working people
go on suffering in these countries. That
is why they are desperate to immigrate to the United States or any other first
world country. Union leaders and strike
leaders in these countries are still often shot in broad daylight. If workers try to form a union they are often
still fired, as they are in the United States.
And these Latin American governments are still armed usually with
armaments by the American government. And
Uncle Sam is always ready to step in and invade if it looks like the workers
will succeed in kicking out a bourgeois government. I think we need to realize that the immigrants
from Latin America and other parts of the world are fleeing desperate economic
conditions, just like our own immigrant ancestors. And no matter what they're going to keep on
coming, especially because employers here in the United States are more than
happy to exploit them. So what we have
to do is fight for the equal rights of these immigrant workers. And what's more American workers can learn a
lot from these immigrant workers.
Q.
Why do you say that American workers can learn a lot from immigrant workers?
A.
Many workers from Latin America come from a very militant working-class
history. These workers have had to fight
very hard for what little rights they have.
Sometimes I believe that the American worker has not been militant enough
lately in defending himself against union-busting and other attacks against the
workers. In addition, not that Latin
America is perfect when it comes to the subject of race but compared to the
United States many Latin American workers grew up in a tradition where black,
white, indigenous, and mixed-race workers are all united together in a common
goal of fighting together to make more money.
We all want to make more money, right?
The only way for all of us in the United States to make more money – is
for the workers to all unite together across racial lines and whatnot and fight
together for better wages and better working conditions. Black workers, white workers, straight
workers, gay workers, male workers, female workers, workers born in the United
States and immigrant workers must all unite together in common struggle to make
more money and to fight for the right of all to have jobs. The employers and the politicians and the news
media (which is owned by the employers) use the immigrant as a scapegoat for
the American worker's problems. But who
was it that caused the latest economic collapse? The big corporations! And the big corporations have been bailed out
with the tax dollars from working people.
So really, it's the big corporations and the politicians who are hurting
the American worker. The employers and
the politicians and the news media want to use the immigrants as scapegoats the
same way that Hitler and the Nazi party used the Jews as scapegoats for the
problems in Germany during the Weimer Republic era. The Jews had nothing to do with the problems
in Germany during the Weimer Republic era.
The Jews were just scapegoats back then the same way that the immigrants
are scapegoats today. The immigrants have
not caused the enormous problems that we see in the United States today. It is the big corporations and the
politicians of both parties that have caused these problems. And it is important for white workers to
remember that many of their own ancestors were immigrants. Back when our ancestors immigrated to this
country the employers and politicians and news media treated our Irish,
Italian, German, and Eastern European ancestors the same way that they are
treating the predominately Latino immigrants today. When you spit on immigrants today you are
spitting on your own ancestors. When you
perpetrate bigoted hysteria against today's immigrants you are perpetrating the
same kind of bigoted hysteria that your own immigrant ancestors were victims
of. And if you think of that immigrant
co-worker as being your enemy you are foolish.
The employer is your enemy, not the immigrant. The employer wants to pay you as little as
possible. If you have a union the
employer wants to smash your union. If
you don't have a union then the employer will do everything to stop you from
getting one. The only way that you will
get better wages and better working conditions is by uniting with all the
workers around you to fight for better wages and working conditions.
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