Capitalism and World War III

Capitalism and World War III

An Interview with Wolf Larsen

from the book Capitalism Sucks!

Question: So, do you think that World War III is possible?

Answer: Yes, I do.  In fact, not only do I think it's possible I think it's probable.

Q.  Why do you think that a nuclear war is probable?

A.  Look, the Cold War may be over, but the stockpiles of nuclear weapons are still sitting there.  They're sitting there for a reason.

Q.  What reason is that?

A.  The stockpiles of nuclear weapons are sitting there waiting for World War III.  It's impossible to say – or difficult to say – which countries will be on which side.  But war is always.  Under the capitalist system there is always war.

Q. Well, it's true that there has been a lot of war.  The last century alone saw two world wars.  But don't you think that because World War III will be so horrible – because of nuclear weapons and all – that therefore World War III will never happen?  Because it will be too horrible?

A.  The problem with that argument is that people made the same argument prior to World War I.  In the years immediately preceding World War I there were those who were warning that a world war – or a war between the major European powers – was nearly imminent.  Other people dismissed those warnings as being overly alarmist.  These people argued that all the new advancements in warfare had made war unthinkable – and that therefore there would be no war.  But these people were wrong.  World War I happened anyway, and it turned out to be more horrible than anybody imagined. 

Q.  But the United States and Russia have just signed a treaty to reduce their weapons.  Don't you think that with all the peace agreements and the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union that we will now be entering an era of peace?

A.  That's just it!  We haven't entered a period of peace!  The Cold War is over yet still there is endless war!  The United States right now is in two wars at the same time – in Afghanistan and in Iraq.  As far as peace treaties go the period preceding World War I saw endless peace treaties and endless disarmament treaties and yet that didn't stop World War I from happening.

Q.  You keep mentioning World War I.  Why do you keep mentioning World War I?

A.  I keep mentioning World War I because World War I was a horrible carnage!  Many people considered it senseless.  However, war is endless under capitalism.  It's the nature of the capitalist system to bring endless war.  In addition, the situation in the world today resembles the situation before World War I in many ways.

Q.  You say the situation today resembles in many ways the situation before World War I.  How is that?

A.  Prior to World War I there was intense competition between the various powers of Europe for markets and economic domination and whatnot.  Today it is not much different.  There is intense competition between the major world powers for global markets.  Trade wars lead to shooting wars.  The origins of many wars are economic.  The competition between two or more superpowers heats up and so they go to war.  The collapse of the Soviet Union only made the economic competition between the various capitalistic powers even more intense.  The major capitalist powers were united against the Soviet Union.  But now all the major capitalistic powers do not have a common enemy.  And the competition between the United States and its former allies on the other side of the Atlantic is heating up.  Economic competition leads to economic wars which lead to shooting wars.

Q.  Economic competition between different superpowers throughout history has led to war, that is true.  But still, don't you think the use of atomic weapons would just be too horrible for anyone to consider using them first?

A.  The war-mongering nuts in the White House have already used the atomic bomb – in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  If they're crazy enough to use the atomic bomb once they're crazy enough to use it again.  If the United States government is crazy enough to create a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons they're crazy enough to use it.  The US government has never renounced the first use of nuclear weapons.  The Soviet Union – back when it existed – did renounce the first use of nuclear weapons.  The Soviet Union stockpiled nuclear weapons to defend itself from the United States.  If the Soviet Union had not had that huge stockpile of nuclear weapons then the United States might have dropped the atomic bomb on cities like Moscow and also Hanoi in Vietnam.

Q. You really think that the US government would have dropped the atomic bomb on Hanoi in Vietnam?

A.  Yes, I do believe so.  Because the United States was losing the war.  The only way that they could've brought the North Vietnamese government to their knees is dropping the atomic bomb on Hanoi.  But, dropping the atomic bomb on Hanoi might have begun World War III with the Soviet Union.

Q.  But doesn't the very fact that the United States government did not drop the atomic bomb on Hanoi prove that the US government is not crazy enough to use the atomic bomb again?

A.  The US government decided it wasn't worth it to have a nuclear war with the Soviet Union over Vietnam.  However, when the situation came much closer to home the United States was willing to have a nuclear war.  John F. Kennedy brought the world to the brink of a nuclear holocaust during the Cuban missile crisis.  It was Khrushchev that backed down, not Kennedy.  If Khrushchev had not backed down during the Cuban missile crisis there might have been a nuclear war.  And if there had been a nuclear war we would not exist today.

Q.  I see, but even if there is a nuclear war do you think it will be as horrible as many say it will be?  Isn't it possible that the human race will survive a nuclear war?

A.  If there is a limited exchange – such as if India and Pakistan had a nuclear war – there would be widespread nuclear contamination and many people all over the world might get radiation sickness and cancer and die.  But it's still doubtful that the entire human race would go extinct if the nuclear war is between countries with smaller arsenals of nuclear weapons like India and Pakistan.  However, in the event of a nuclear war between two countries with heavy stockpiles of nuclear weapons like Russia and the United States then I do believe it's probable that the human race will go extinct.  The people in the United States and Russia would die quickly – in many cases instantaneously.  The rest of the human race – the people outside Russia and the United States – would die slowly, but they would all probably die.  There would simply be too much nuclear radiation contaminating everything – including the air the water the ground and all the plants and fish and animals we eat as well.  Everything would be contaminated with nuclear radiation.  In addition, a major nuclear war would cause so much destruction and therefore cause so much dust in the atmosphere that it would block out the rays of the sun.  This in turn would kill off the plant life and the large-scale die off of plant life across the world would cause a large-scale die off of animals – so all the animals and plants that we eat would be dead.  So even if someone were lucky enough to be immune to all of the nuclear radiation in the sea and the air and the water they still wouldn't have anything to eat.  So they would die.  So a nuclear war would not only cause massive numbers of people to die of radiation poisoning, but it would also cause massive deaths from starvation.  If you still doubt that a major nuclear war would cause human extinction then you should go to the Peace Museum in Hiroshima.  See with your own eyes what one primitive nuclear bomb can do.  Remember, today's nuclear weapons are far more powerful than the ones used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  And only one nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and it destroyed a good part of the city.

Q.  Have you been to the Peace Museum in Hiroshima?

A.  Yes, I have.  From the photographs it became obvious that the one primitive nuclear bomb used destroyed a good part of the city.  In addition, the survivors had been asked to paint and draw what they saw immediately after the dropping of the atomic bomb.  The pictures you see are a horrible scene.  The drawings are of people with their arms spread away from their bodies because the flesh from their arms and their bodies was flowing down to the ground and if they had their arms next to their bodies then their arms would stick to their bodies.  So all these people with their flesh oozing off of their bodies were walking in mass to the river as they groaned "Water!  Water!  Water!"  over and over again and when they reached the river they drank and drank the water and then they died.  There were massive numbers of corpses flowing down the river of Hiroshima.  The nuclear bombs of today are so numerous and much much more powerful.

Q.  But what about the possibility of a terrorist dirty bomb?  Doesn't that seem far more likely than a major nuclear war?

A.  I don't have a crystal ball.  So it's impossible for me to say whether there will be a terrorist "dirty-bomb" or not.  That would certainly be horrible.  However, it will not cause the human race to go extinct.  While the idea of a "dirty-bomb" is terrifying the idea of the extinction of the human race from a major nuclear war is also terrifying – far more terrifying.  What's interesting is that our government – the United States government – uses the fear of a "dirty-bomb" and terrorism in general to justify limiting many of our civil liberties.  What's ironic about all of this is that here's the United States government talking about the dangers of a possible nuclear bomb when in fact the United States government has the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the entire world!  The United States government is the biggest terrorist in the world.  The huge stockpile of nuclear weapons of the United States government is the biggest threat to the survival of mankind, as well as the huge stockpile in Russia's hands as well.  Homo sapiens have been the only humans on this planet for the past 30,000 years, because 30,000 years ago Neanderthal went extinct.  Do you think we can survive another 30,000 years with the atomic bomb?  So far, we've managed to survive some 65 years with the atomic bomb.  Do you think we could survive another 650 years with the atomic bomb?  Do you think we could survive another 6,500 years with the atomic bomb?  Do we want our descendents to be destroyed in a nuclear war?

Q. So what do you think should be done to eliminate new weapons?  Or rather, is it feasible to eliminate nuclear weapons?

A.  We have to eliminate nuclear weapons, or otherwise eventually at some point in the future there will be a major nuclear war and the human race will go extinct.  And even if the human race doesn't go extinct from a nuclear war civilization as we know it will cease to exist, and there will be huge die offs of human beings.  The entire world would be contaminated with nuclear cancer-causing fallout.  The number of births defects would be staggering.  It would just be so horrible that we must do everything possible to eliminate nuclear weapons from the world.  So you see, it is not a question of whether it's feasible or not to eliminate nuclear weapons – we must do it!

Q.  But you didn't answer my first question.  How do we eliminate nuclear weapons?  Don't you think our own government – the US government – is doing its best to eliminate nuclear weapons?  After all, our government is doing everything possible it can to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons.  Our government is doing everything it can to stop Iran and North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons.  And on top of that our government has signed a treaty with Russia to eliminate some of the nuclear weapons in both nations' stockpiles.

A.  The key word there is some.  The treaty only eliminates about a third of the nuclear stockpiles of Russia and the United States.  So there will still be plenty of nuclear weapons there to kill off the entire human race – or to at least kill off most of the human race.  Remember, the nuclear nuts in the White House have a bomb shelter to escape to.  So maybe they think they can survive a nuclear war, I don't know, but the people running the world are a bunch of crazy war-mongering fools, and they certainly can't be trusted with the atomic button.  As far as the anti-proliferation efforts of the United States government against North Korea and Iran is concerned it is rather hypocritical for the country with the highest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world to be telling other countries that they can't have nuclear weapons.  Especially when our own government acts like a big bully threatening countries like North Korea and Iran those countries feel that they need to arm themselves with a nuclear bomb to protect themselves from an American invasion.

Q.  Then what should be done to eliminate nuclear weapons – all nuclear weapons – from the world?

A.  The solution is to get rid of capitalism.  Capitalism brings endless war.  We should take both the war-mongering Democrats and Republicans and throw them out of government and let them pick up garbage off the streets for food stamps.  (Laughs)  Or they can do something else for a living.  But I tell you in order to bring about world peace the Democrats and Republicans will both have to get new jobs.  We should throw them out of the government.  Remember that it was the Democrats who dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki – that was Harry Truman.  Remember that it was the Democrats that brought the world to the brink of a nuclear holocaust during the Cuban missile crisis – that was John F. Kennedy.  So either the Democrats and the Republicans might push the atomic button.  The only solution is to kick the Democrats and Republicans out of office.  What we need is a workers party.  A workers party will bring peace.  Once there are workers parties in power in countries throughout the world we will be able to eliminate nuclear weapons from the face of the earth.

Q.  Only once the world is ruled by workers parties – and only then – will it be possible to eliminate nuclear weapons from the face of the earth?  Really?

A.  Yes, I believe so.  Capitalism brings endless war.  A socialist nation might need nuclear weapons in order to defend itself from capitalist nations, that is to keep the capitalist nations at bay.  But once there are no more capitalist countries on the planet then it will be possible to eliminate nuclear weapons for good.  Once capitalism no longer exists on the planet earth there will be no more war. 

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About This Book

For my great-grandfather James O'Boyle:

immigrant, miner, I.W.W. organizer, & strike leader.

About This Book

Much of this book is a series of "interviews".  In these "interviews" I answer questions I imagine readers may have about the evil system of capitalism and what we can do about it.  There's simply too much war, too much unemployment, too much poverty, too much homelessness, too many people working their rear ends off for miserly wages, too much racism, too much sexism, too much homophobia – there's just too much human misery.  I realize I am no deep theoretician, but perhaps the reader will be thankful for that, as the book is relatively easy to read.  I am no labor leader, but I have worked at both blue-collar and white-collar jobs.  I am simply just another face walking down the street, and as I walk down the street I see that the world is filled with unemployment, racism, sexism, homophobia, poverty, etc. What can we do about it all?  That's why I've written this book.  

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A WORKERS BILL OF RIGHTS

A WORKERS BILL OF RIGHTS

1) Double the minimum wage!  Full medical and pension benefits for all who work!  Everyone who wants to work should have the right to a job!

2) Defend unions!  Defend picket lines!  Picket lines mean DON’T CROSS!  Defend the picket lines against scabs and other scum by any means necessary!

3) Bring all American troops home at once!  No more money for the war budget – not one dime!  Spend the money in the war budget on social programs instead to improve the lives of Americans!  No more wars!  No more invasions!  Put the American President on trial as a war criminal!  Treat veterans with respect!  For fair treatment, full compensation and benefits, and quality medical care for all veterans injured in America’s wars!  For the unity of rank-and-file soldiers and workers against the war-mongering politicians, generals, and war-profiteers.

4) For an immediate halt to all evictions and foreclosures!  Housing must be a right for all!

5) End the war on drugs!  Legalize all drugs!  Free everybody who is in prison on drug charges!

6) Support immigrant rights!  For full democratic rights for all immigrants!  The only Americans who are not “illegal immigrants” are the Native Americans!

7) Full equality for women!  Fight for equal pay for equal work!  Fight for free abortion on demand!  Quality free child care for all working women!  Support the Second Amendment so that women can protect themselves from violence!  No to feminism – feminism betrayed the struggle for women’s liberation when they jumped in bed with the moral majority and became puritans.

8) Treat gays and lesbians with respect!  For full equality for gays and lesbians! For full democratic rights for all gays and lesbians – including the right to marry!  Gays should have the right to defend themselves with the Second Amendment against violent homophobic thugs! 

9) No to segregation!  Fight for racial equality!  Blacks must have full access to equal education and opportunities as whites.  SMASH this racist capitalist system – which was founded by slave owners and slave traders.

10) Break with black nationalism!  The black nationalists murdered Malcolm X. Today’s black nationalists sell the black people out to the Democratic Party – which is just as racist as the Republicans!

11) Smash the KKK and the neo-Nazis with mass mobilizations of workers, students, blacks, Jews, progressive whites, etc. whenever the KKK and the neo-Nazis try to march! Defend interracial couples from violent white supremacists and black nationalists!  Everyone must have the right to date whomever they choose!

12) Defend the Second Amendment!  All Americans should have the right to defend themselves!

13) For a living stipend for all students, writers, musicians, and artists!   Defend the right of artists and writers to fully express themselves in their work!

14) Free quality medical care for all Americans!

15) For free quality higher education!  Eliminate tuition!  Make all higher education free!  Cancel all student debt immediately!

16) For billions of dollars for AIDS research until a cure is found!

17) Break with the Democrats!  The Democratic Party is no different than the Republicans.  The Democrats are warmongers just like the Republicans!  The Democrats in Congress voted for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  The Democrats escalated the war in Vietnam, and dropped the atomic bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  The Democrats are attacking our democratic rights just like the Republicans! The Democrats in Congress voted for the Patriot Act.   The Democrats attack unions – just like the Republicans.  The Democrats are not the friends of black people!  The Democrats opposed the Emancipation Proclamation, the Democrats supported the Counterpro program in the 1960s that murdered black activists, and in 1985 Wilson Goode (a black Democratic mayor) murdered a dozen black activists and their children in cold blood! 

18) Build a third party – a workers party – a party that will fight for all workers whether they are white or black, male or female, gay or straight, native-born or immigrant.

19) Freedom of speech for all!  No to censorship – whether it’s by politicians, the police apparatus, religious extremists, conservatives, or P.C. feminists/liberals!

20) Strike down the Patriot Act!  Full democratic rights for all!

21) Support the struggle of workers!  For the unity of artists, writers, and students with the struggles of the working class!  For the unity of white and black workers, male and female workers, gay and straight workers, native-born and immigrant workers – all workers must unite and fight together for better wages, better medical and pension benefits, and a better tomorrow!

And if a capitalist government cannot satisfy these just and reasonable demands, then let's replace capitalism with socialism!

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Break with the Democrats and Republicans! Form a Workers Party!

Break with the Democrats and Republicans!  Form a Workers Party! 

An interview with Wolf Larsen

from the book Capitalism Sucks!

Question:  Do you support the Republicans or the Democrats?

Answer:  Neither!  The Democrats and Republicans are pretty much the same!  The Democrats talk a lot of pretty words about helping working-class people, blacks, Latinos, and women.  But after they get elected the Democrats pretty much do the same as the Republicans.  The Democrats voted for the Patriot Act just like the Republicans, so the Democrats are attacking our civil liberties just like the Republicans.  The Democrats in Congress voted for two wars at the same time – Iraq and Afghanistan – so you can see the Democrats are warmongers just like the Republicans.  The Democrats vote for hundreds of billions of dollars a year for the war machine just like the Republicans.

Q. But don't you think you we should support our troops?

A.  The same politicians that talk about supporting our troops are the same politicians that cut medical spending for veterans.  The politicians – both Democrat and Republican – use rhetoric about supporting our troops in order to launch all their endless wars.  The best way to support our young people is to give them a free college education or job training skills.  Let's stop sending our young people into war!  If the politicians want war then let's send all the politicians themselves into war, and let's bring all the troops home.  I hear a lot of soldiers are sick of being in the armed forces – they've been called back to Iraq and Afghanistan so many times that they're sick and tired of war.  They thought they were going to defend our country, but instead they find themselves getting shot at in order to further the interests of oil corporations in Iraq or the interests of a corrupt government in Afghanistan.

Q. So you're a pacifist then?

A.  No.  But these wars only serve the interests of the privileged few, and those privileged few are not the ones doing the fighting and the dying.

Q. I see, but since you say you're not a pacifist, which wars do you support?

A.  The Civil War to smash the Confederacy and the War for American Independence are the only wars I support.

Q. Not the Second World War?

A.  By the time the American troops landed on the shores of Normandy the Soviet Union was already kicking the ass of Nazi Germany.  The American entry into the Second World War was more about stopping the Soviet Union from liberating all of Europe.

Q. So you seem to be arguing that the Democrats are warmongers as you call them.  But many people view the Democrats as historically being the party of peace – how do you answer that?

A.  The Democrats market themselves as the party of peace in order to get more votes and fool the people, but their actions after they get elected are no different than the Republicans.  It was the Democrats that got us into both World Wars I and II, it was the Democrats that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was the Democrats that escalated the war in Vietnam.  The Democrat John F. Kennedy attempted to invade Cuba and brought the world to the brink of a nuclear holocaust during the Cuban missile crisis.  The Democrats may talk peace, but they are warmongers just like the Republicans.  The Democrats are war criminals just like the Republicans.  The Democrats have blood on their hands just like the Republicans.

Q. But the Democrats have put up a black man as candidate for President.  A woman – Hillary Clinton – almost became a presidential candidate for the Democrats as well.  Isn't that significant?

A.  No it's not.  We've been through this before – we've had black mayors, black judges, black cops, etc. The black mayors and black judges and black cops have pretty much done the same as the white mayors and the white judges and the white cops.  I don't think a black President will be any different than a white President.  The rich people will keep on getting richer, and everybody else will continue getting poorer.  And these wars are never going to stop as long as the Republicans and Democrats are in power.  You mentioned that the Democrats put up a woman for President – or nearly put up a woman up for President – but England has already been through that.  They had Margaret Thatcher, and she was as ruthless as any man!  She attacked unions just like male politicians, launched wars just like male politicians in the Malvinas or Falkland Islands, and attacked the poor and social programs just like male politicians.

Q. But there's at least one difference between the Democrats and the Republicans – the Democrats are more for workers and for the poor – isn't that true?

A.  No it's not.  The Democrats are union busters just like the Republicans.  Democrats will call in the police and even the National Guard to break your picket lines and escort scabs into your workplace just like the Republicans.  Hillary Clinton, who was supported by many union bureaucrats in the last Democratic primaries, well she supports union busting legislation like the Taylor act, which makes it illegal for many workers like the transit workers in New York to go on strike.  And as for the poor it was under the last Democratic administration in the White House – Bill Clinton – that welfare was replaced with slavefare.  It was the last Democratic administration in the White House that ended welfare as we know it, and cut off many poor women and children from the welfare rolls.

Q. But the Democrats are more for women, aren't they?

A.  No.  The Democrats in the White House have come and gone and we still don't have equal pay for equal work.  And how about free quality child care for all working women?  The Democrats haven't delivered that, they're not even talking about it!  Why shouldn't working women have free quality child care, they pay taxes don't they?  But instead all we get for our endless taxes is endless wars and more wars, and also our taxes pay to keep over 2 million Americans behind prison bars every night because of the war on drugs.  And by the way it was the Democrats under Clinton – the last Democratic administration in the White House – that presided over the biggest buildup of prisons in American history!

Q. So if you don't support the Democrats and the Republicans who do you support?  Do you support the Green Party?

A.  No I don't support the Green Party.  The Democrats and Republicans put corporations before working people.  The Green Party puts animals before working people!  (Laughs)  The Green Party and its kind are more concerned about the rights of some dog than they are about the rights of a working person – these so-called left-wing liberals put dogs above the working person.

Q. Left-wing liberals put dogs above the working person?  Don't you think that's a slight exaggeration – or a big exaggeration?

A.  Maybe, a slight exaggeration.  (Laughs)  But you know, there's a certain type of liberal that gets on people's nerves.  They're all holier than thou with their political correctness, and they're so sexually puritanical with their political correctness that they sound just like the conservative Republicans that they're always criticizing.  And on top of that they're gentrifying our inner cities and driving up the price of rent!

Q. So if you don't like the Green Party who do you like?  What kind of political party would you support?

A.  We need a workers party!  A party that will fight for all working class people – regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, religion, national origin, etc.  We need a workers party – a political party that will fight for quality free medical care for everyone, quality affordable housing for everyone, equal pay for equal work, equality for black people, equal rights for homosexuals and immigrants, a decent free education for all, double the minimum wage...

Q. Double the minimum wage?  Are you crazy?  The Democrats just raised minimum wage 50%.  If we raised minimum wage again wouldn't that hurt the economy?

A.  It would certainly hurt the profits of the big corporations and the rich people, but it would be beneficial to poor workers – the people who need it most.  Everyone who works deserves a decent salary!  If people are working for miserly wages there's a name for that: wage slavery.  And if paying working-class people a decent wage isn't good for the economy then we need a different kind of economy – we need the kind of economy that pays working people decent wages, where quality medical care is free for all, where everyone has the right to quality affordable housing, everybody has the right to a job, and where there's equal pay for equal work.

Q. But that all sounds like pie in the sky – how do you propose to have the kind of society where people make decent wages, everyone has free quality medical care, and everyone has quality affordable housing?

A.  It would take a revolution – a workers revolution.

Q. But wouldn't that be violent? Wouldn't there be lots of bloodshed?

A.  Well, if the rich people all just said you workers are right, we've been screwing you too long, and so we'll give up our power and our money, and we'll let you working people run the show – well in that case there wouldn't be any bloodshed.

Q. Well isn't that kind of naïve – to expect the rich people to just voluntarily give up their wealth and power?

A.  It sure is!  A workers government will have to defend itself against violent elements who don't want to give up their wealth and power to the working-class majority.  All governments are instruments of class oppression.  Either rich people oppress workers, or the workers oppress the rich people.

Q. But hasn't that manner of thinking gone out of style?  I mean the Soviet Union collapsed didn't it?

A.  The Soviet Union was governed by a bunch of Stalinist hacks – it's amazing that the Soviet Union survived as long as it did!  And under a planned economy the working-class people in the Soviet Union were far better off than they are today in capitalist Russia.

Q. But things in Russia are improving – aren't they?

A.  Lately things are improving because the price of oil is up up up!  The Soviet Union exports a lot of oil and gas.  But even with oil and gas exports bringing in lots of money most workers were far better off under the Soviet Union than they are in capitalist Russia.  The standard of living of workers was higher, the people had free medical care, the people had affordable housing, they had pensions, they had the right to a job...

Q. But don't you think freedom is more important than material things?

A.  Do the people in capitalist Russia have freedom today?  God forbid that a Russian should criticize the new czar of capitalist Russia!  The news media has little freedom.  Political parties are being repressed...

Q. But isn't that the way it was in the old Russia – I mean the ex-Soviet Union?

A.  Yes.  So when Russia went capitalist the workers lost the right to a job, the right to affordable housing, the right to free medical care, and lots of other things too – but they never had freedom of speech under the old Stalinist system and they don't have freedom of speech under the new capitalist system either.  What we need is a workers democracy – not a Stalinist bureaucracy like there was in the Soviet Union.  And the fact that workers in capitalist Russia have little freedom today is proof that capitalism does not bring democracy.  In fact, here in the USA we have less democracy every year.  More and more our country feels like a bipartisan dictatorship of the rich.

"Build a Workers Party!" from my YouTube channel SucksCapitalism:

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Let's Build Big Strong Powerful Unions!

Let's Build Big Strong Powerful Unions!  Union Jobs and Union Wages for Everybody!

An Interview with Wolf Larsen

from the book Capitalism Sucks!

Question:  Why do you want to kick out the trade union bureaucrats, as you call them, and replace them with a militant leadership?

Answer:  Because the trade union bureaucrats are always selling out the workers.  The trade union bureaucrats are too close to management.  What we need is to kick the union bureaucrats out and replace them with trade union leaders that are more militant.  We need militant trade union leaders that will fight for the rights of workers!  We need militant trade union leaders that will fight for better wages, fight for free quality medical care for all workers, safer working conditions, free quality child care for all female workers, equal pay for equal work, etc.

Q.  Why do you say that the trade union bureaucrats are always selling out the workers?

A.  Because that's what they do!  Often when there's a strike the trade union bureaucrats don't want to have real picket lines that mean nobody crosses.  In addition, the union bureaucrats often don't care about the concerns of rank-and-file workers.  A lot of these trade union bureaucrats seem to be more concerned with what's best for management.  Many of these trade union bureaucrats are too close to management, they're too buddy buddy with management.  There's labor on one side and there's the bosses on the other and you're either on one side or the other.

Q.  You seem to be very passionate about workers rights.  Does this passion come from your own experiences in the labor force? 

A.  When I was in my teens and early 20s I worked in restaurants, supermarkets, and offices. Then I worked on commercial fishing boats in Alaska for nearly 2 years.  On some of those boats I worked over 100 hour weeks.  Because there was no union we got screwed lots of times and in all kinds of ways.  We were virtually slaves.  You have to work on a commercial fishing boat in Alaska to see what I mean.  Later, I stopped working on the commercial fishing boats.  I started working on the docks.  The first jobs I did on the docks was throwing 44 pound boxes of frozen fish for 12 hour shifts.  Each man had to throw 3 tons of boxes per hour – that was the minimum!  We stacked the boxes in rows up over our heads to the ceiling in the cargo holds of ships.  We worked in freezer holds that were cold – up to 10° below zero Fahrenheit (-25 Celsius).  Having just gotten off commercial fishing boats I thought this kind of work was easy at first.  And we even got a break every two hours!  I thought that was great!  It was nice having the union.  Because I actually got paid for my work.  On the fishing boats we sometimes worked for free.  Anyway I continued working as a longshoreman or dockworker for the next 10 years.  I did stevedore work, which was throwing boxes, and I also did container work, which was lashing barges and ships.

Q. Were you represented by a union on the longshoreman's job?

A.  Yes, I was represented by the International Longshore and Warehouse Union or I.L.W.U.

Q.  That's supposed to be a good union!

A.  It's one of the most powerful unions in the country.  Maybe it's better than other unions, but as far as our own union local was concerned, well we used to call the union business agent Lameass.  Lameass was his nickname.  He was the main union bureaucrat in our port.  Whenever we rank-and-file workers would say we want such and such changed the answer of Lameass was that that wouldn't be good for management.  That union bureaucrat was more concerned about management than he was about us workers.  What made things even crazier is that we were casuals.  Even though we paid union dues we weren't actually members of the union.  Anyway, I worked as a longshoreman in the port of Dutch Harbor Alaska on a seasonal basis for 10 years.  I put in long hours twice a year – up to 100 hour weeks – and I took a lot of the year off to write and travel.

Q. What was being represented by the I.L.W.U. like?

A.  In some ways it was good, real good.  The pay was good.  If you got fired you only got fired for that day.  You could come back the next day to work again.  They couldn't get rid of you just because maybe some asshole foremen didn't like you.  As long as you showed up on time and did your job it was difficult for them to fire you.  That was good.  They couldn't just replace you with their cousin, or their drinking buddy, or whatever.  That was because there was a powerful union.  The union controlled hiring.  However, the people who lead our union local were very lame.  I remember walking the picket line and watching scabs do our job.  There was no effort to stop the scabs from doing our job.  Instead of making a serious effort to unionize all of the dockworkers in the port the union would try to organize people in other lines of work that had nothing to do with the port because I guess that was easier.  It was pathetic!  The union gave away a lot of our work on a silver platter.  Lots of work in that port that used to be union is now non-union.

Q.  I see, and you feel that most trade union bureaucrats are pretty lame?

A.  Most of the trade union bureaucrats are a bunch of Lameasses!  What we need is a militant trade union leadership that is not afraid of leading a real strike.  We need picket lines where nobody crosses!  Scabbing should be hazardous to one's health!  Massive picket lines should be set up everywhere where there is no union.  Everything should be unionized!

Q.  Everything should be unionized?  Even small businesses?

A.  Not necessarily small businesses.  But what I mean is all major industry should be unionized.  All major employers in the country should be unionized.  All large employers should be unionized.  Unions mean better wages for workers.  Unions mean better benefits for the workers.  Unions mean better job protection for the workers.  In a strong union you can't be fired just because the manager doesn't like you.  They have to have just cause to fire you if the union is strong.

Q.  Many trade union officials make six-figure incomes.  How do you feel about that?

A.  I think that's awful!  Trade union officials should only make as much as the workers that they represent!  If the trade union officials make more than the workers then they don't have the lifestyle of the workers, they get out of touch with the workers, they don't understand the workers.  Trade union officials should only make as much as the workers they represent.  If the trade union officials decide they want to make more money than they better fight to raise the wages of the workers they represent as well.

Q.  Many trade union officials have close ties to the Democratic Party.  How do you feel about that?

A.  I think it sucks!  The Democratic Party doesn't care about workers anymore than the Republicans!  The Democrats are a bunch of two-faced so-and-so's just like the Republicans are.  We're basically living under a democracy of the rich.  And both parties represent the interests of the rich.  The Democrats call out the police against picket lines just like the Republicans.  The Democrats support union busting legislation just like the Republicans.  The Democrats aren't our friends.  All that money that the trade union bureaucrats are giving to the Democratic Party is a complete waste of our hard-earned dollars.  Instead of giving our money to the Democrats the unions should put the money in a strike fund, so the workers can go on strike whenever they have to!

Q . Some people say that unions are bad for the economy.  How do you feel about that?

A.  Unions are bad for the rich people's economy, but unions are good for the working people's economy.  Unions put money into the pockets of working people. 

Q.  But isn't it true that unions impose a bunch of complicated rules on the workplace?

A.  Many of those rules are there for a reason.  For example there was a rule in our longshore union that if we worked after midnight the employer had to pay us extra money.  That was an incentive to send everyone home at midnight.  That way everyone could go home and make their spouses happy.  Keeping their spouses happy helps keep marriages together.  And the longshoremen can get some sleep.  We're talking about a quality-of-life issue here.  There were other realities too.  Management was more concerned about production and less concerned about safety.  Since it was the workers getting injured management didn't care about safety rules as much as we did.  There were a lot of rules about safety, because safety was very important to us.  Also, we didn't want management to practice favoritism in hiring.  And that's why the union hall controlled hiring.  Hiring was based on seniority.

Q.  Why shouldn't management be able to hire whoever they want to?

A.  In our port management didn't do the hiring.  The union hall did the hiring.  Jobs are given out based on seniority.  Once all the people with seniority had jobs the new guys got a chance.  Actually, giving out work on the basis of seniority made it more difficult for the employers to practice discrimination.  Giving out work based on seniority gave more opportunities for blacks, women, gays, and anybody else management might discriminate against.  Anybody who was capable could do the job.  When the union hall controls hiring there's less discrimination.  The workers feel more secure, because since advancement is based on seniority you don't need to worry as much about being in the good graces of the boss.  There's no reason to kiss the ass of the boss.  Kissing the ass of the boss won't help you.  The only thing that will help you is doing your job and doing it right, and always showing up on time, etc.

Q.  What other advantages did you find in a union job?

A.  Union jobs are safer.  By having a powerful union to back you up you felt more confident to refuse to do something that is not safe.  (Our job was very dangerous.)  In the beginning I worked many nonunion jobs in the port because I didn't have much seniority and those nonunion jobs were a lot more dangerous than the union jobs.

Q.  What do you think should be done about corruption in the unions?

A.  If there's some corruption in some unions it's up to the workers to clean house.  The best way to clean house is for the workers to kick out the union bureaucrats that are corrupt.

Q.  You don't think the government should intervene, to help make corrupt unions cleaner?

A.  Absolutely not!  Because the government doesn't care about making the unions cleaner.  The government intervenes in unions to weaken them!  The government is hostile to unions.  The government makes these claims about corruption – which may or may not be valid – but the government makes these claims of corruption because the government wants to take over the unions and weaken them.  Our own government is very corrupt.  You're always reading about some corrupt politician.  Who the hell are these corrupt politicians to be complaining about corruption in the unions??  The government should keep its hands off the unions!  The unions belong to working people!  The unions don't belong to the government!  The working people must fight to keep the government out of our unions.

Q.  If the government decides to take over a union or take over union local what can working people do about it?

A.  They can protest.  They can also go on strike.  They can stage slowdowns.  Workers in other industries and workplaces can stage sympathy strikes.  There can even be general strikes – which would involve all the workers in an entire city or nation or industry.

Q.  Why should workers in other industries and workplaces stage sympathy strikes?

A.  Because if the government takes over a union then the government can later take over other unions too.  An injury to one is an injury to all!  It's in the self-interest of all workers to stand together and fight together.  Workers are stronger that way!  At any rate the strike, the general strike, the sitdown strike, slowdowns, protests, sympathy strikes – these are some of the tools with which the working class can defend itself and make demands.  The working class can use these tools – such as the various types of strikes, including general strikes – to demand free quality medical care for all, better public schools for the workers' children, the release of political prisoners, etc.  The working class can make powerful statements with these methods – and other methods too!  For example, longshoreman and truck drivers and railroad workers can make a powerful statement by hot-cargoing all armaments destined for the wars.

Q.  What is hot-cargoing?

A.  It's when workers refuse to handle cargo – such as in the case of the war – workers refuse to ship and transport armaments.  Hot-cargoing can also be used against companies that hire scabs.  Railway workers, truck drivers, longshoremen, and warehousemen can refuse to handle cargo made by scabs.

Q.  When many people think of unions they think of something outdated – don't you think that unions are now outdated?

A.  How could unions be outdated when so many people are working so hard for such miserly wages?  How could unions be outdated when so many workers on this planet don't even have medical insurance?  And many times the medical insurance that the workers have doesn't even pay their medical bills – so obviously unions are not outdated when such basic concerns as decent wages and decent medical benefits are not even being met by the employers.  The object of the employers is to pay workers as little as possible.  Many workers don't even get a break at work – not even a 15 minute coffee break.  If you take a 15 minute coffee break you get fired.  The basic rights of workers are being trampled upon.  That's why we need unions more than ever!

Q.  But if the workers demand better wages and medical benefits won't the employers react by just moving more jobs overseas?

A.  That's why you need unions!  To fight to stop the employers from moving jobs overseas!  If you lay down and play dead without a fight what will that get you – nothing!  We shouldn't just give away jobs to the employers on a silver platter.  We need unions in order to fight to keep our jobs.  Ultimately, in order to assure jobs for everyone at decent wages we will need to have a workers revolution.  Because under the capitalist system workers will always get screwed.  But in the meantime we need unions to defend ourselves.

Q.  Unions seem to be mostly confined to industrial jobs.  Unions don't seem appropriate for non-industrial jobs – isn't that true?

A.  You can organize lots of jobs with unions!  The fact is 60% of Americans want unions in their workplace.  However only 13% of the American workforce is unionized.  That's because the bosses are engaging in all this union busting!  It's also because the union bureaucrats are selling the workers out all the time.  Also the government is on side of the bosses.  For these reasons only 13% of the American workforce is unionized.  But you can organize all kinds of workplaces.  Supermarkets have been organized.  Everything can be organized.  Stores can be organized and made union.  Chain restaurants like McDonald's can be unionized.  Offices can be unionized.  Office workers – many of them – are not well-paid.  Many office workers get fired if they take a 15 minute coffee break.  Many office workers don't receive benefits.  Many office workers get fired for the slightest little petty thing!  Many office buildings are just white-collar sweatshops.  That's why we need unions in office jobs as well!  You can unionize almost everything!  Unions will bring better wages and more job security, because it will be more difficult for the employer to fire somebody without just cause.

Unionize Everything from my YouTube video channel SucksCapitalism:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ev3WMA1ulE&t=1s

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